Areas we need to improve to beat the best

qldmagpie67 · Joined: 18 Dec 2008

I've spent several weeks watching some 2015 (some on IQ saved and some on fox footy and some on highlights reels.
For the past 3 season Hawthorne have been the bench mark in terms of having a very good side and one that's adaptable depending on who they play and the conditions.
I'll use them as a guide to the areas we need to improve to take the next step.
Let me state firstly I'm very happy with the list we have built/building the past couple years. Last year at 8-3 we lost 4 games by less than 2 goals against against sides who made the 8. We weren't far off being 11-5 12-4 and who know what those wins would have done to the confidence of the young players.
Ok back on topic in no particular order I'll mention some of the main things the Hawks do and we need to do well

1 There mid field barometer is Mitchell he averages over 30 disposals in each of there premiership years. He has a weakness when he gets a hard tag but the coach notices this quickly and will swing him to HBF or HFF to take away the tagger and he generally moves either Rioli or Hodge onto the ball. Mitchell isn't quick but is very good on both sides of his body so often gets himself out of trouble that way. We need to find our mid field barometer who can play a similar role. It could be Pendles or Treloar or Sidebottom for mine I would use Sidey in this role and send him forward as he can be a very good goal sneak.
Note I would rotate both Greenwood & Crisp on Mitchell

2 When the going gets tough at the contest they send there hardest head into the action in Roughhead. He can play as a 6ft 3" midfielder who crashes packs and clears a path for the likes of Hodge Lewis Mitchell. He also gets back deep and gives the defence a helping hand. This at times leaves there forward line a little short but that's when they send there resting ruckman in either Hales or Ceglar forward. For mine with his engine and body size this could be Travis new role. He has the endurance to do the job but does he has the want to do it is the question.

3 There best player IMO is Hodge. Not only is he captain but he gets into the midfield and wins the ball, goes forward kicks goals and gets back in defence and gives his team an option. He does all the hard jobs. I think Bucks showed his hand a bit late last year when he sent Pendles to HBF to be our general. We all know Pendles can win his ball and also be the release player using it very well too. He does get forward and kick the odd goal but he sets more up than Hodge. Pendles can't do it all but this is were a Treloar or DeGoey need to step up and help Pendles and the team.

4 There pressure all around the ground is second to none. They are very good at forcing teams to kick to areas they want the ball to go to. One thing they don't do is have multiple players rushing to the same contest. They play manic forward pressure but from there on they play one on one backing there team mate to win there contest. If they lose that contest there midfield run back quickly and put the next man on under more pressure. One of our biggest weaknesses is we send 2 or 3 players to a contest but often lose it and then the next man in line rushes up leaving his man and thus we ge burnt with a lot of coast to cost goals. We need to play the same manic forward 50 pressure game but then just man up and at least make the opposition win every contest. Our midfield must work over time running both ways wiith equally vigour.

5 Hawks more often than not played 2 rucks. Hale & Ceglar proved to be a decent resting rucks up forward and kicked goals nearly every game. Now whether we play both Grundy & Witts or one of them with a make shift ruck is debatable. If we play 2 rucks one must be a goal kicker that's where I see Grundy being more valuable.

6 defensively they aren't afraid to play a smaller defender on a opposition tall giving up inches for speed and vision. Lake Gibson Frawley often gave up 3 or more inches but made it up by reading play well and then running off there man. We need Brown Frost Reid Marsh Ramsay Langdon etc to learn how to do this as well. Frost & Marsh have both been caught in the NAB cup getting caught ball watching instead of just sticking tight on there man. I know a lot of this will come with more experience but they need it to happen sooner than later.

Lastly there past 3 premiership sides had 15+ players with over 100 games experience in there 22. We don't have that yet we are around 60/65 games with 13-17 of our best 22 (depending on what side is selected) yet to play 100 games so we are still a season possible 2 from being in the same range.

Do I think we can win it all this year ? Maybe not but I live in hope. Do I think 2017/18 we can be up to our ears in it absolutely.

John Wren · Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 7:33 pm

whilst i appreciate the thought and effort that goes into long posts, any chance of an exec summ?

stui magpie · Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 7:50 pm

One thing left out is the hawks brand, unsociable football.

Brisbane had it, Hawthorn has it, even a number of the Geelong players had it.

Hard, uncompromising footy. We need to encourage players who can deliver it.

RudeBoy · Joined: 28 Nov 2005

We need our rucks to start dominating. Do that and we'll win the f@cki g flag, like we did in 2010 with the arrival of Jolly. It's that simple.

Brenny · Joined: 05 Apr 2011 Location: Westpac Centre

I don't think our backline is as good as 2010, RudeBoy.

This year at least, it may be our Achilles heel. I'm happy to be proven wrong.

I still think they're a year and a pre season from really gelling.

I think Reid is the key to be honest. Frost is a good see ball fist ball guy, but I don't trust him with ball in hands and if we can keep Reid we have a good marking defender which I think is important.

Tannin · Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 9:08 pm

1: Forward line has to fire. Consistently! We have great promise with the form of Gault, Moore, the midfield champion part-timers (Swan, Pendles, Sidey, add Treload in there too), and especially Fasolo, but March form is a poor guide to July form. It is absolutely essential to get consistent form from some forwards not named "Cloke" or "Elliott". I think we are on the cusp.

2: Rucks need to find some excellence. They are good youngsters with a lot of promise. This is the year to deliver on that promise - both in the ruck and when going forward. Again, the March signs are good, and it's great to have three genuine big men all capable of playing the #1 role, but they need to do a bit more in the forward line and become genuine dangers against good sides.

3: Midfield has to become on of the most effective and feared combos in the comp. It can and will. Back that in. Any midfield good enough to be able to afford Swan and Pendlebury on the flanks is bloody awesome!

4: Defense will be OK so long as we have any two of Reid, Frost and Brown on the park. Our small defenders are very good individually, but still stuff up team-wise from time to time. Getting a settled back six would help a lot.

5: Run and disposal, disposal and run. We need these all over the ground, and with Varcoe playing career-best footy, Pendlebury on half-back,and Aish on a wing, we are half-way there. Ball-magnet Adams must work on his disposal (if he can do that he'll win a Copeland), and we need more backmen who can deliver reliably to advantage. Ramsay must play, and a fir Reid would be wonderful!

Darkstranger · Joined: 06 Jun 2012

melliot · Joined: 07 Apr 2006 Location: Bendigo

I think we should get better at kicking more goals than the opposition we are playing. That nearly always wins you more games............ Nearly always.

I should coach with such a great game plan.

Dave The Man · Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 11:10 pm

Get Better Down Back

GoWoodsmen · Joined: 18 Apr 2005 Location: Australia

For mine the No.1 thing that has to change is to find a way to counter the "rebound". On Saturday in the first half against the dogs it was just deja vu from last year. Slingshot attack and no defense in any side has a hope against that. Not sure if it's setup or perhaps lack of running "both ways" as they say but we need to ensure we very rarely let that happen.

Additionally our kicking out from a point is egde of your seat stuff every single time. Now that we appear to have some leg speed I'd like to see a long kick to a contest every now and again. Surely a 50-60 metre kick with some trust that our boys will win the contest has to be better than 3-4 15 metre chips that threaten to be broken up every time.

Barring that I'm with Melliot on this ... kick more goals than our opponent... and over 100 points a game would be very nice indeed!

Presti35 · Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 2:04 am

ronrat · Joined: 22 May 2006 Location: Thailand

And the glaringly obvious. If Cloke is double teamed find the spare man and make them pay. And I mean big time. Say an 8 goal game from gault that has the opposition coach being asked why he double teamed one player while getting torched. Even if it means Cloke leading into dead pockets.

E · Joined: 05 May 2010

E · Joined: 05 May 2010

69 years a MAGPIE · Joined: 12 Oct 2015 Location: Hong Kong

By my count, over the 3 NAB games, we got a total of 21 goals from our tall forwards, 10 from the smalls and 15 from the mids. That's 15 goals a game, with a few added from other sources, generally enough to win most matches. It's the Hydra approach - cut off one head and another pops up We have the mids and forwards to do that, so now the back boys need to come to the party consistently. Get that right and we are on our way.